Peter Elbow: Summary of Ways of Responding

I found the Elbow article very helpful in that it categorizes and makes very specific the different types of feedback and how useful they can be to both reader and writer.  Such considerations put down on paper are very important in writing workshops because: 1) they create focus 2) shape and direct discussion 3) produces helpful and effective feedback (hopefully).  In my writing workshops, I have instituted similar handouts to facilitate the workshop. I have found them to be not only useful, but instructive to the students in many ways. That is, they learn about writing, the writing process, and how to approach writing problems that arise as one drafts and composes.

Drafting Advice

22 Ways to Start Writing, by Donald Murray

FaceStupid

“It can be tricky to bring Facebook or any other popular literacy into the classroom as an object of critique without seeming to frame it as a lowbrow object of intellectual contempt” (556). 

Perpetuating stereotypes.  What I mean by this is, the point of this article is to get us to want to or want to try to do a rhetorical analysis of FB in our classroom.  So, Jane, is trying to convince us that this could be useful for us.  Is she arguing for it? Maybe not, maybe more presenting it to us.  But by presenting it, you are inevitable going to sway us or not sway us and either way we know we are either moved or not moved but someone tried. 

Which then I guess makes that sentence and the intro to her work okay in that it is shedding both negative and positive light on the issue.  Pros and cons and rebuttals and blah, blah make ideas and arguments and what not more complex.  At least this is what we are taught, and this is what I have also taught to students.  However, I am not an undergraduate student anymore and I’m not more or less convinced by the tactics of your presentation.  Meaning I am extra sensitive to the manner in which you approach your topic from your structure, organization, word choice, sources or lack their of, references, tone, title, etc.  I am paying attention to your composition as an end product not for it’s content alone but rather for how it’s content is tied to, reinforced, or challenged by the form or forms it takes.  As a graduate student of rhetoric and composition pursuing my PHD in the field I am obligated, kinda not really, to take your seriously, Jane.  Especially when I see things like, 2010.  This wasn’t written in the 1920’s or the 1990’s! (notice that the 20’s and 90’s are basically the same now because technology is so fucking insane that information is consumed and produced at speeds never known to man i.e MIT freshman students cannot use the very shit they just learned in their sophomore year because it is already obsolete, and we, teachers, are still sitting here creating a paper that rhetorically tries to appease audiences so that “I can be taken seriously” or so that “my argument will be solid”) Let me get to my point.

What we feel is irrelevant.  *** This is not a negative or positive thing. It just is.  

 “Although I feel that Facebook, in all of its facets, can be used for a rhetorical analysis, I feel just about anything can be used for a rhetorical analysis. –I’m one of those people that feel that almost anything that we encounter is an argument, and that it is working to push an agenda. Because I am not comfortable on where I sit with Facebook, I can’t determine whether it is socially responsible to use Facebook in the class. I feel like, by using Facebook in the class it’s validating everything I feel is wrong with it (along with what I like about it” (Eddie)

The points Eddie brought up in his journal are all good!!! Valid, interesting, cool.  However, to allow your own feelings/bias literally overwhelm you to the point you can’t teach something that is a reality, I think, is bs.

Eddie, you aren’t alone by far.  I have several instructor friends who feel the same, actually much more negative and bash FB and it’s use in the classroom as well as in our lives and can’t stand the thing.  But my thing is- since when do your personal issues dictate the possibility of instruction?

The fact that FB has the narcissistic and negative qualities Eddie points out- “I feel that Facebook is systematically creating a generation of narcissists who have a superficial perspective of reality. I feel that more than not, Facebook creates a passive compliance among its users, and it does little to empower them”- makes it already a fruitful space for analysis.  

The fact that FB has positive attributes as Eddie points out- “On the other side of things, I appreciate what Facebook is capable of being... With the emergence of Facebook, I feel like that my Facebook profile can be my legacy to my family. Every aspect of my profile is a representation of me and my life”- is again, another reason it should be looked at.

YOUR personal feelings of a lack of understanding or rather lack of control of your students understanding and feelings- “  I feel a teacher presents the data, and it’s up to the student to reach their own conclusions… But that’s exactly where part of my problem lies, if I’m not comfortable with their potential conclusions, then how can I comfortably say I am being socially responsible?” -  as a reason for not teaching something is …

I am fucking blown away by this.

Anyways.

Check out the Facebook rhetorical analysis Ron and I created and did as an icebreaker activity for our students during the summer.  This ice breaker approach is an interesting way of using it, I think.  I’ll preface this by saying the activity was followed by a discussion of the fragmentation of identity via FB and how facebook can be used for… I will refer to Thaddeuse now….”Everything on Facebook is a mask, just some people's mask looks more like what's under it than other people's”, moreover, we may wear multiple masks at the same time or switch masks in the same day or confuse flesh with plastic. 

It is this aspect of FB that creates a third meaning or third space, again, I’ll refer to Mr. Thaddeuse: “Facebook is a way for people to present themselves in a strict format. It could be how they want to be seen, it could be how they actually are, it could be some third thing”

ThirdSpace---- Homi K Bhabba et al.  check this shit out homeslices.. great stuff.  

The Facebook of Life

 "It's not my fault, this mask I wear." --Man Man, "Zebra"



I was talking to Eddie the other day (i.e. Monday after class) about the Fife article and Facebook being fake and not really a good tool for in-class rhetorical analysis. His point was that Facebook is necessarily a social tool whose purpose is to accrue more followers by any means necessary. Or, I guess more correctly, having an eye on "likes" whenever you post something. I almost completely disagreed with him, using my own example of not caring as an example.

But I started to think about it and of course I care. First of all, I don't use Facebook all that much, but I like when the stuff I post gets likes, it's a good feeling. I don't tailor my posts for that purpose, though. Or do I? Maybe, I don't know. The real question, though, is how much use can Facebook have in the classroom?

I saw this chart the other day on Facebook that showed it could sort of predict when a romance was blooming between two people. It's from an article on The Atlantic called "When You Fall In Love, This Is What Facebook Sees" Here is said chart:





The argument this chart is making is that courting people tend to post more messages back in forth on each other's walls until they flip the "In A Relationship" switch, where things steadily cool off. This is something that might be a big difficult to see without lots of data, but it does suggest that it can be a useful tool.

In fact, I think it can be a very useful tool. If you're on twitter, you might know about a phenomenon called "subtweeting". A subtweet is basically a vague tweet about a specific person without mention of the person. Like, if I were to say "I guess some people don't know how to thanks." Or, think of the entire song "You're So Vain." Facebook timelines are filled with these so-called sub-posts. Eh, that's stupid, I've got something else.

Facebook is a way for people to present themselves in a strict format. It could be how they want to be seen, it could be how they actually are, it could be some third thing, like what they wish they were but know in they're heart they are not.

But back to what I was saying at the beginning, I guess. What people choose to post or not post is making an argument, if you want to get meta. Is that even meta? Probably not. I'm way all over the map here. Not my best entry.

OK, let's try again. Take two: Facebook profiles can be analyzed the same way we analyze (or were supposed to analyze) our discovery drafts: by looking at what the different elements of the profile are trying to do. Are the different quotes, posts, pictures showing us that a particular person is fun, worldly and outgoing, or are they simply saying, "I'm fun, worldly and outgoing"? Are there lots of pictures of wild drinking and carousing, but also the religion says "devout christian"? Is a recently broken up person posting a lot more sexy pictures, like, "this is what you're missing, asshole"?

And I think even if your point with Facebook is just to post things that get likes and get lots of followers, what tactics are being used to do it? How much are they posting, what websites or people do they reblog? Was that a recent huge uptick in posting? A recent stoppage or massive slowdown? All these tell a story.

When you're creating a post, you're thinking extensively about what you want that post to say about you. What you want your profile to transmit about you. Like, "I like these things and these people and these quotes and if you also like these things and these people and these quotes, then you might like me." Alternatively, if you post frequently about Men's Right's organizations and how the PC police are ruining America, that also makes a strong statement of, "Hey, let's not hang out."

Of course people are complex, and Facebook arguments are often tightly controlled, but that in itself is making an argument, that argument being, "I'd rather be blandly not-hated than genuinely liked." Everything on Facebook is a mask, just some people's mask looks more like what's under it than other people's.

Use take two.


adfasdf

Discourse and FB

     Ok, so when I read the Jane Fife piece I was skeptical. My first question was “How can you teach Facebook as rhetoric?” By the time I finished I had to reconsider my position.

So in thinking back on writing assignments, I tried to envision when I have used networking cites as a source and  while several examples came up there was one that really stuck out: I had to write a personal narrative essay( I think it’s sometimes also called an experiential essay, but they somehow seem different). Fife writes,“These profiles that usually reflect the ephemeral concerns of the writer can take on special significance upon the writer’s death”(Fife, 561). In the essay I chose to write about a friend who had passed away and the impact he had on my life. I went through all of my memories with this person and interviewed other mutual friends. I had a good launching off point but I wanted to make it something really good; I wanted to make it a proper tribute in a way. He passed away before the popularity of FB but he did have a Myspace account which I revisited; after unlocking my own myspace I was able to see pictures I hadn’t seen in a long time as well as two videos of my friend playing guitar. Needless to say it brought back a lot of memories and I felt that he was much closer; this was such an invaluable resource because it was my friend as I remembered him.

So I see the potential of FB as discourse. I guess my next question was the practicality of using Fb in the classroom: somehow I envision students creating Fb profiles for historical figures in a multimodal assignment then going home and telling their parents that they were on facebook all day.

Shari - McCurry and Perl

McCurry presents the case of machines (MSW) being used to score essay tests. The MSW and the reader's scores were different. That seems like an inevitable outcome. The AST W test is scored with many different variables. That seems to make this liberal real world writing test more accurate in its scoring.

Perl's piece looked at non-proficient writers and writing process. What they do, how long does it take? I found this piece funny because if writers are being watched and observed while writing, they will not be presenting their true process. Each of the participants met with a researcher for 5 90 minute sessions. In the sessions (four) where writing was the main focus, the participant was told to think aloud and “externalize their thinking processes”. The talking brain can't compete with the thinking brain. I found this silly.  Perhaps because this was done in the 70s (whatever that means); however, this study seems accurate but not reliable.  If done today, I'm sure the results would be vastly different because of people's attention span.

Shari

The Right Audience

Writing for the right audience is one of those polarizing and obvious tricks we are taught in grammar school. Fulweiler explains that there are multiple audiences across the multiple genres and that it is important to be able to understand and manipulate those slight variables to be able to use the most effective writing possible in each situation. So we learn to identify the various types of writing, the various types of audiences and the one or two identifiable and interchangeable circumstances between them.

I am best at reading my audience when it is right in front of me. I know how to look for body language, how to read facial expressions, I've even gotten pretty good at reading between the lines, breaking down what people say and understanding what they actually mean, but this is all in person. This all about business and interpersonal psychology. But writing for an absent audience is a very different beast. When you have a very obvious written audience, ie. teacher, boss etc. you can anyicipate how they will react to each stament and adjust accordingly the next few sentences so as to better suit their needs.

 But not all audiences are this obvious or readable. The intended audience is predictable and those changeable features I mentioned above for a live audience can apply here, but the unintended audience, the family member that strolls upon your writing or the email that was accidentally sent to "reply all" instead of just "reply" can't be written with these circumstances in mind. People will still come across my writing, whether in this post or on a stupid email I wrote or the marginal notes I wrote in the text book last semester that I then sold back to the library and I can't predict who will see what or how they will interpret it. All I can do is try to best-present and represent myself in any and all situations. This is a blog. This is meant to be like a free-write blog, and while I try to free write, I still glance back every few sentences to check grammar and syntax and though I leave some of the more simple contradictions in, I still go back to fix the glaring issues. I don't want to look like an idiot... But I also want to write simply and clearly. Persuasively and nonchalantly...

Lets Make a Peer Review Template!

“Ask for specific responses on early drafts.  Do you want an overall reaction?  Do you want help with a particularly intricate argument? Do you want simple editing or proofreading help?   When you share a draft and specify the help you want, you stay in control of the process and lessen the risk of your reader’s saying something about your text that could make you defensive” (Fulwiler 176).

In the section entitle “Writing for Classmates” Fulwiler addresses the importance of specificity in peer reviews.  I think this is something that needs to be addressed by all of us.  I think the most common issue with peer reviews in writing workshops is that students cannot distinguish revision from editing.  I constantly tell students that email me, asking for a “second look” that I charge 20 for editing… what they need is help with the overall paper… which is an in-person conversation.

I think the confusion that students have towards revising/editing stems from high school.  I remember the few peer reviews that I did where we just did a round robin reading fixing grammar and syntax as needed.  What I really needed help with, as a student, was content and structure.  Two things that were almost never addressed in the instructions.

Lindeman also addresses this issue in Chapter 12 of her book when discussing Writing Workshops.  She says that students often “adopt the hypercritical, authoritative tone of the comments they’ve read on their papers” after a peer review so it is important to provide a model for constructive advice.

That model should be a CLEAR, CONCISE set of instructions for peer reviews.  These should highlight both the positive aspects of the essay, the areas which need work, and specific questions on structure, how to remove unnecessary portions, and an analysis of the rhetoric used….

Perhaps we can all come up with a template for Peer Reviews together?  I bet it would be awesome/ all-inclusive/ great for us to give our future classes!  Lets get on it!

Thoughts regarding Miss Reyes' notes

I totally agree with Amanda’s claim that journals should be utilized as a person space.

“Grading individual entries in journals is counterproductive because it discourages provisional thinking and regular practice with writing.  Journal offer students a place to write without fear of making mistakes or facing criticism for what they have to say”

I think it is absolutely hysterical that my teachers still have Reading Journals on their syllabus.  Even as a graduate student I’m still being graded on my journaling.  The sad thing is, I’d keep one anyways.  I like having my initial responses and quotes I liked down on paper.  But the minute I find out a teacher will be looking at it I immediately begin to censor myself, completely dissolving any truth my thoughts had. If a Reading Journal is meant for the student, there is absolutely no reason a professor should be reading it.  If it is a thinly veiled attempt to ensure students are staying on top of the reading, I almost take offence.  We’re in graduate school. 

There is obviously a disconnect when composition teachers, who acknowledge the importance of a PERSONAL reading journal, still  require students to submit one for a grade.  I guess they aren't doing what they preach.  Annoying as balls...

Writing and Teaching Writing: What I Want/Need to Know

Why do students need to have a voice when writing? And if they have a voice, should the teacher then criticize it? If not, then the teacher’s criticizing the mechanics and structure of the writing. If so, then who is the teacher to criticize the student’s voice?

What I want to know is why schools spend so much time using fairytales as prompts to teach children to read and write, then expect us to abandon creativity/imagination in favor of academic discourse. It's like the Peter Pan syndrome – no room for mature writers in the land of imagination. The importance of content, structure, proper language, a writer's etiquette, takes precedence over authentic voice.

What I want to know about teaching writing is what type of discourse is going to provide my students with the best chance of being a successful academic writer. I am torn between what I'm learning in terms of alternative discourses to teaching writing. That is my number one issue. I read that the expressive pedagogy is great and allows an authentic voice but what usefulness other than writing differently does this serve? When they move on to the next writing class and the teacher has no experience or is in direct opposition, how will it affect the student? I just wonder if it is not the status quo and so many of the institutional level abhor this type of writing, again what is the purpose?

Why does English as a department carry a stigma that no one who majors in this field will get a job/took the easy way out?

Why is teaching (specifically in college) so political/competitive? Why don't college professors work together more often rather than seclude themselves?

What's more important: research, publication, or teaching?

How important is knowing grammar/MLA as a teacher in composition?

Should you take a year or any amount of time off between MA and PhD to teach? Will this better your chances of getting into a PhD program?

How do you write/teach to write dialogue?

What history (of writing) is most important to cover? What theories are there on writing? There are literary theories on how to analyze literature – what is there for the act of writing itself? Do they overlap – modernism, postmodernism, structuralism, etc.

Please summarize Bartholomae/Elbow debate – where does it stand now?

More insight as to why some of the articles are important for students – and more other words more feedback.

Samples of successful thesis prospectus

Samples of literacy biographies

I would like to know how to work with students who have a phobia of writing. I find the getting the ball rolling often begins with the opening sentence: I want to get the audience’s attention in the first line. Sometimes it's a difficult task when the topic is very complex. Should we encourage “one-liners,” opening sentences and skills for developing something that catches the eye and ear?

Providing student feedback

Evaluating students writing/grading

How do I write creatively?/Creative writing instruction

ESL students: do I grade them on form or just content?/Best way to teach composition to ESL students

Practice with process

How can I help students organize writing

How to get students to deepen analysis

Teaching students to revise and take it seriously

Helping students invest in writing

Helping students to brainstorm on their own

Challenging writers to write more and more often

I need to know my students. I need to become familiar with their – his and her – writing. I want to want to need to read and “grade” their writing. I want to not feel like spending all, most, of my time is a burden. Why should I decide to be this person – join this morally ambiguous and egotistic elitist field – not to conform, to upset, destroy (Cixous) and reinvent.

I want to know the best way to break the mold of the five paragraph essay for younger students. Alternative forms of essays.

I want to know how to grade creative writing pieces. It seems completely subjective.

I want to know what the new “big thing” is in composition studies. Is it all on multi modality in writing across texts?

How to teach conclusion paragraphs

Syntax

Effectively connect paragraphs?

Is there anyway a rather what is the way to help students writing without it sounding like you? Or another way, how do you not default into “Well this is what I would say”?

Can you or should you reward weaker writers for relatively significant improvements in writing even if it's not near as good as some of the strongest students? And if you should, how?

Why is Academic Writing So Academic?

By Joshua Rothman.

Prewriting Annotations Transcribed

 I took my annotations and highlights from chapter seven and transcribed them here.  I actually wanted to just post photos of each page and my annotations so you could see the page and have more context to my annotations, but my writing is scrawl.  I sometime couldn’t read it as I was doing this and that was frustrating.  I frustrate myself a lot.  Anyways-  the bold headings are the subsections to the chapter to help with clarity.  The italics are my comments. 

Chapter 7: Prewriting Techniques

“This is the first requirement for good writing: truth; not the truth…but some kind of truth - a connection between the things written about, the words used in the writing, and the author’s real experience in the world he knows well- whether in fact or dream or imagination” – Ken Macrorie

“Prewriting” = “Invention”

Various techniques… “some use pictures, talk or pantomime to generate ideas…”

“As a rule, the more time students spend on a variety of prewriting activities, the more successful the paper will be”    -  not sure > possibly better, possibly cluttered, and crowded or too narrow

Perception Excercises

“Assignments involving argumentation can begin with impromptu debates, which might then be worked into brief written dialogues and from there into more formal kinds of discourse. Similarly, students can translate reading assignments, pictures, or music from one medium to another, then to a third and finally to a written form.  The assumption behind these activities is that similar principles govern communication in various media. When students practice the ‘language’ of pictorial art, of gesture, and of music, they also learn principles that reinforce their use of the spoken and written word.  Furthermore, in responding to cartoons, music, and pantomime, students become more sensitive observers of their world”   -   multimodal & multiwriting techniques à however, difference is -always end in “written” production

**fact- reality- necessity for equal analysis, consumption, & production

Brainstorming and Clustering

-lists

-cluster diagrams

-diagrams

analogies for understanding à  one becomes many, and many are one—the process of division by analysis & whole & parts, etc.

Freewriting

“Elbow recommends that students freewrite at least three times a week. Freewritings, he insists, should never be graded.” à never graded? à but what about seen? à  “leave on my desk before you leave” “you can place your freewrites in this locked cabinet…” lol no but seriously, voluntary basis?

 “…leaving students free to let their own language take charge of the page..”à 1) set ?’s 2) student made? 3) partner made? 4) each round new kind? 5) all

Journals

“Journals… record experiences and observations meant only to be read by their authors…” à to personal? Risk losing audience à abstract vs concrete

hmm.. I treat journals as my space

“Grading individual entries in journals is counterproductive because it discourages provisional thinking and regular practice with writing.  Journal offer students a place to write without fear of making mistakes or facing criticism for what they have to say”

à what am I really asking for? Practiced writing? Or thought/idea invention?

“When I read a set of journals, occasionally I’ll come across an entry full of obscenities. They’re meant to shock m. Generally, I ignore them first time around…”  à NOOOOOO à comment/talk back/talk with

free form criticism, but also need for academic/respected support—is this going somewhere productive or new? where next?—help me build!!!

Heuristics

-topoi

-“enthymemes on all matters”

-“heuristics prompt thinking by means of questions”

-5 “w”s

- Burke’s Pentadàexpanded 1) by student 2) by prompt 3) by…

-the “work”

- the “audience”

-summary of techniques= brainstorming, clustering, freewriting, answering questions

-3 perspectives- particle, wave, field

-6 concepts- particle, wave, field, contrast, variation, and distribution

Models

Artists? Stealing like a writer? --- Bishop

“Third, in discussing any model, the fouc should be primarily on how the writer solves problems” à how & what à BUT, rather we should emphasize the RELATIONSHIP between how and what